Liv Golf

Jon Rahm has jumped despite saying he would not for years.

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jon-...the-sport/

Dirty money won. It is not like he or guys like Michelson were hurting for money.

I love golf and Liv has ruined professional golf for me.

I too love the game. I've played for years, although poorly usually. I'm sort of ambivalent about the whole Saudi support thing. I always believed that the USGA and the R&A would continue to set the boundaries and provide the governance needed over the "game of golf". And I still believe that to be true.

I don't really "like" the intrusiveness of the Saudi money into the game, but really, what is the difference between that and the regular PGA Tour .... except the total dollars involved.??

I admit that I have not done a "deep dive" into this mess, so I don't really "understand" all of the bits and pieces. So, what am I missing, LP.?? On the surface this seems to be just another "tour" that the Pro golfers can play.??  There are several "tours" around the world right now. The PGA is just one of several. There must be something else involved or this would not have raised such a stink.

Help me out, LP...

The LIV Golf series controversy has gained traction since the concept was first floated. While the traditionalists backing the PGA Tour slammed the newly introduced series, others cited political reasons for dismissing LIV. Many have blatantly opposed the series as Saudi Arabia’s PIF backs it. The country’s move to promote the new golf series internationally is seen as a political strategy for cleansing their global image.

A large part of the controversy over the series revolves around Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. The Crown Prince’s involvement in various cases, including the murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi is being brought forth to oppose the series. Meanwhile, the Saudi government’s alleged involvement in the 9/11 attacks in New York has also been stated by many.

This blew up after families of people killed or injured during the September 11 attacks penned an open letter to PGA Tour golfers. Around 2,500 people thanked the golfers for not siding with LIV
https://www.sportskeeda.com/golf/what-li...troversial
In its simplest form many believe LIV Golf to be sportswashing to cover up Saudi Arabia’s appalling human rights record. LIV Golf is funded by the sovereign wealth fund of Saudi Arabia, the Public Investment Fund, and it is said to have assets of over $620bn.
https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/why...troversial

In his new book, “LIV and Let Die: The Inside Story of the War Between the PGA Tour and LIV GOLF” (Avid Reader Press), Shipnuck gives the inside story of how LIV ultimately ramrodded through ethical concerns and resistance using its huge financial firepower to all but buy an entire sport.“LIV is about many things besides golf, chief among them money, power and politics,” writes Shipnuck.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/17/saudi-arab...rld-apart/



Also....Edge updated and now the format here is all screwed up again....sigh.  May try yet another browser.






Now on firefox and all is good.

Hmm... Lots of good information there. I read all three of those linked articles and I now have a better understanding... There are still some question marks for me though. I'll post a little more on this (in the next day or two..) when I can better wrap my head around it. If you've been following this controversy for awhile... and I assume you have, then you have a far greater understanding than I do.

On the other front... VERY pleased that you are back up and running again.   You have had a lot of bad luck with the site software and browser compatibility. I used to run higher-end Sony laptops with different versions of Windows. (Two different ones, each with different OS..), but never had any compatibility issues. LOTS of other issues, but not compatibility. I finally got tired of constantly re-booting, fighting malware, constant security upgrades, blue screen of death, locked keyboards, etc., etc.  I switched everything over to Apple products. No more problems of any kind, no worries, no downtime.  I also realize that not everyone wants to switch their computer environment. It was a conscious decision on my part to avoid headaches and frustration.

Anyway, there may be another more permanent solution if you have another failure. We'll keep our fingers crossed that doesn't happen.!!

Hmm... Lots of good information there. I read all three of those linked articles and I now have a better understanding... There are still some question marks for me though. I'll post a little more on this (in the next day or two..) when I can better wrap my head around it. If you've been following this controversy for awhile... and I assume you have, then you have a far greater understanding than I do.

On the other front... VERY pleased that you are back up and running again.   You have had a lot of bad luck with the site software and browser compatibility. I used to run higher-end Sony laptops with different versions of Windows. (Two different ones, each with different OS..), but never had any compatibility issues. LOTS of other issues, but not compatibility. I finally got tired of constantly re-booting, fighting malware, constant security upgrades, blue screen of death, locked keyboards, etc., etc.  I switched everything over to Apple products. No more problems of any kind, no worries, no downtime.  I also realize that not everyone wants to switch their computer environment. It was a conscious decision on my part to avoid headaches and frustration.

Anyway, there may be another more permanent solution if you have another failure. We'll keep our fingers crossed that doesn't happen.!!

Thanks. Would love to have an Apple computer, just not in my budget yet.

My computer was given to me by a company that they gave me (along with 2 monitors) who I worked for remotely for 2 years.  They moved my team overseas  so last Dec my job ended.  Merry Christmas!  Usually when a person is no longer an employee they have you send the equipment back or they charge you for it.  They did neither in my case. My nephew is in IT and he told me how to wipe out the company's software and start as if new. Other than finding a browser that this site works well with I have had no issues.

Here is a strong opinion piece by Tim Schmitt of Golfweek that was also published in The Observer:




Only Jon Rahm can say whether he sold his soul. His principles and his reputation, however, are now owned by the Saudis. The two-time major champion and once-ardent defender of the PGA Tour became the biggest name to defect to LIV Golf on Thursday, deciding the tradition and challenge of the Tour weren't so important to him, after all. Who needs to play on courses where Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods made their mark when you can stage glorified exhibitions with the Cleeks and the HyFlyers! So long as the price is right, that is.
All his talk about "fealty" to the PGA Tour, of wanting to play against the best in the world in tournaments steeped in history, and Rahm turned out to be no better than his buddies Phil Mickelson and Sergio Garcia. Once the figure the Saudis were dangling got high enough, Rahm was quick to abandon all he'd once stood for. As for the blood on the hands of his new employers that is now staining his own, well, all those zeroes make it easier to overlook. If nothing else, he can use one of his stacks of cash to wipe it off.
The damage to Rahm's reputation, and the Tour he supposedly loved so much, can never be undone.
Much like Rory McIlroy, Rahm had staked out a position as the conscience of golf, someone who saw LIV for the shameless money grab it is and wanted no part of it. He said as much. Many, many, many times. "I already make an amazing living doing what I do. I'm extremely thankful, and that all happened because of the platform the PGA Tour provided me," Rahm said in July. "As far as I'm concerned, they've done enough for me, and their focus should be on improving the PGA Tour and the game of golf for the future generations."
Instead, he's made it more difficult for the Tour to exist in its current form.

Once upon a time, Rahm didn't consider LIV to be "real" golf. Shotgun starts and three-day tournaments? You might as well be putting it through a clown's mouth.

And while he won at The Memorial and Torrey Pines and Augusta National, the best LIV could do for tradition was Doral

...........Growth? Innovation? Does Rahm know about some LIV the rest of us don't? The only thing that changed was the amount of money the Saudis offered Rahm to be an accomplice in their sports washing. "For all those things that I like about this movement, there's always going to be some things that are not perfect,” Rahm said, “but that's the situation in everybody's life.” Tell that to Jamal Khashoggi’s family. Or the families of those killed in 9/11. LIV isn’t just a golf league. It’s a central part of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s scheme to use sports to cleanse his image. He figures if he splashes enough money out for sports, the world will forget about his and his country's human rights abuses. Like the marginalization of women and suppression of the LGBTQ community. And his ordering the murder of Khashoggi, whose body was then dismembered by a bone saw. That's who Rahm now works for. That's whose image Rahm is helping make over.

Once one of the game's good guys, Rahm is now a hypocrite and a sellout. But hey, he’s getting paid. That’s all that matters to him now

Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports...rylink=cpy